I think they should change frost strike back to next hit, let it consume runic power and either still let it do double damage against frozen targets or let it benefit from frost bite .... So frost has it's runic power dump and less rune problems ...and even more synergy between the spells.
I expected Frost Strike was going to be nerfed, but I didn't expect Frost Strike to be nerfed that bad. Scaling Frost Strike with Blood Strike, Death Strike and Degenerate is reasonable for a 1 Frost rune instant strike, but not if Icy Touch and Frost Strike are going to compete with each other for Frost runes and frozen bonus damage.
It's ridiculous how underpowered Frost Strike is for a 41 point talent, I'd rather Frost Strike be scaled according to Obliterate and Plague Strike at 100% weapon damage for 1 Frost and 1 Unholy rune and auto-crit a Frozen target instead of 2xing damage a Frozen target to differentiate it from Icy Touch.
Change it into a melee based "Shatter combo" with Killing Machine procs and Frostbite procs. If you want the freeze -> burst damage synergy to work, then you need all of your Frost abilities and spells procing Frostbite.
Also, Glacial Rot needs to change, because if you encourage the internal synergy of the tree with shatter combos, bonus frozen damage and freeze procs then it's pointless to encourage anti-synergy with bonus disease damage that breaks freezes after 1 tic.
Also, the DnD nerf is BS, it went from an AoE nuke to a tanking ability ... so gay. It should be like half the damage and twice the fear of what it was.
Just a random question as this is my first time here, what set of armor do you have on (or is that just a random assortment that happens to match) and what weapon are you currently using? Thanks
Since the european beta client gets worse with each day I'll try to sum things up
First not Frost related:
- The nurf to vendetta was unneeded big times. I agree that this talent has become to important while leveling but if there is no compensation for it once you hit Northrend it starts to hurt.
- DnD was to strong, but mainly the fear component. Damage seemed to slow down once in Northrend.
Now on to Frost
Frost feels more like chaos or fire than like something cold and slow.
Nearly everything is proc reliant. Icy Touch needs a frozen target. Howling Blast needs one and now Frost Strike needs one too. I'm really no big fan of the new Cinderglacier rune. It's more unreliable while adding more spikiness (sorry for these crazy words). Sometimes my Frost Strike hits for 300 with my main hand than it crits for 1500. I mean, come on.. this is not me playing my class. This is just playing dice with nice graphics.
And the worse part about it is that the new build makes things worse.
Blood of the North seems to be totally random. Sometimes I can use it sometimes I can not. But all it does is adding one more frost rune by making the rotations more complicated (imagine tanking in this setup and with these rotations).
And its still Frost Strike vs. Icy Touch. Both abilites do and cost the same with a little difference. Frost Strike got nurfed from my PoV. It can be partially resisted.. how lame is this.
The whole randomness continues in the tanking aspects of this tree.
Unbreakable Armor, Acclimation, Frozen Dreadplate these are all proc reliant.
Add to this the whole flawed frostrune specialization. A proc relying on a proc from a talent most the time.
I really really hope there is a new build soon as things feel really bad to me now.
What I would like to see: -IT cd reduced to 5 seconds - Skip the whole frozen stuff. We are not mages, we are melees. It hurts while tanking, its useless while raiding - For gods sake remove or change Frost Strike. We have so much Runic Power with this specc. DC Spam is just boring and bears little synergies. - Reduce the number of procs we need to work (Cinderglacier, Freeze Targets, 3 tanking talents)
Leiah, you mentioned that you "must be missing something" about the changes to Frost Strike.
Remember this: old Frost Strike essentially consumed an auto attack (since it is "on next melee"). The new Frost Strike does damage completely outside of auto attack.
Think Raptor Strike... basically you spend the cost of the skill on the tiny bonus damage, since it "uses up" a melee autoattack that would have cost nothing if you didn't hit Raptor Strike.
The change to a separate instant attack is a big buff all by itself, for this reason.
Agreed, this patch is a complete failure: it failed to address DK's problems, it failed to create DK synergy and it nerfed half a dozen DK abilities.
I disagree the whole Freeze + Bonus Damage aspect should be removed, it just need buffs. Because the Frost tree isn't just a tanking tree, it's a PvP tree, so I'd rather move the tanking abilities into low Blood tiers so you can either go Blood/Frost or Frost/Blood for tanking
As it stands, Blood feels sub-par for tanking, because Bone Armor is such an important damage mitigation talent. I come up with 2/35/30 for tanking + utility every time.
I don't see why you would only put 2 pts into blood when you are talking tanking + utility. Wouldn't you want the parry talent in blood? That's what, 10 talents into blood alone?
I definitely understand why you want bone armor and unbreakable armor. Too bad that unbreakable armor has to proc. really wish it would just be an always on effect.
Unbreakable armor: Increases armor by 20%. When using a frost rune, has a 5/10/15% chance to increase total str by 15% for 5/10/15 seconds.
The 2 points in Blood are 2 points for Butchery, I'm using it rather than Chill of the Grave and Dirge for the non-specific Runic Power generation in fights, tho' I'm not certain it's better than either or 2 points in Frost Aura.
Hi, apparently everybody think that Unholy/Blood combo is the most suitable for PVP. But I was wondering why nobody try the Frost tree... Frost talent don't do enough dmg? I was thinking that Frost can give more snare for the pvp combined with Unholy or Blood, and I don't think that Frost is a tank tree at all, more a snare/dmg tree but I really don't know for the moment I can't play to the wotlk beta :( So if someone can explain me why frost is not 'loved' and if there is a great difference in dmg versus the blood or unholy tree... Thanks u :D
I would like to point out that, first, avalanches are fast. So are blizzards.
Second, if you actually hit someone with a chunk of ice, they would take physical damage, not get frostbite.
If you actually hit someone with enough cold that they slow by fifty percent they will die from hypothermia seconds later.
Similarly brainfreeze. Unless the damage is like 3, (like the exact mechanism of ice cream) direct frostbite damage to the brain is instantly lethal. (Note that curse of agony assumes pain causes damage per se, not that pain is a result of damage.)
In reality, of the four elements, fire is the slowest. Firestorms are glacial in pace with respect to landslides, windstorms, blizzards, avalanches, falling icicles, etc...
Also, glaciers do physical damage, not frostbite damage. They require cold, they do not cause cold.
Similarly lava flows vs pyroclastic flows, which are just warm clouds of rock and wind.
--
All the traits we assign to the elements are essentially mythological. "Cold" being "slow" makes as much sense as elves being able to meld with shadows. Or existing in the first place, for that matter.
19 comments:
What can I say. The whole "fix" to Frost is a big letdown for me.
50% weapon damage for a 41 point talent in a tree that really does not shine and has stupid synergies.
Since BotN doesn't seem to work we can't really comment on it besides theorycrafting.
A big punch in my face after all the hopes.
-Saitoz-
I think they should change frost strike back to next hit, let it consume runic power and either still let it do double damage against frozen targets or let it benefit from frost bite ....
So frost has it's runic power dump and less rune problems ...and even more synergy between the spells.
So it looks like either your frost damage is being mitigated by armour or your regular damage isn't.
That sound about right?
But I'd like to know what's up with that wtf crit. You hit like a bugged paladin. :P
Armor is set to 0 atm in Northrend and FrostStrike is not afflicted by weapon normalization.
I will test a bit this evening (german time) once i finish my work and write a little review.
But since you seem to be doing 2h Frost I'll focus a little bit more around DW Frost with killing machine etc..
-Saitoz-
Hm u could also report about the incredible D&D nerf, which is faar to hard nerfed ....
did they also remove mind freeze from the gcd like they did with pummel and kick?
Mind Freeze is still affected by GCD
-Saitoz-
I expected Frost Strike was going to be nerfed, but I didn't expect Frost Strike to be nerfed that bad. Scaling Frost Strike with Blood Strike, Death Strike and Degenerate is reasonable for a 1 Frost rune instant strike, but not if Icy Touch and Frost Strike are going to compete with each other for Frost runes and frozen bonus damage.
It's ridiculous how underpowered Frost Strike is for a 41 point talent, I'd rather Frost Strike be scaled according to Obliterate and Plague Strike at 100% weapon damage for 1 Frost and 1 Unholy rune and auto-crit a Frozen target instead of 2xing damage a Frozen target to differentiate it from Icy Touch.
Change it into a melee based "Shatter combo" with Killing Machine procs and Frostbite procs. If you want the freeze -> burst damage synergy to work, then you need all of your Frost abilities and spells procing Frostbite.
Also, Glacial Rot needs to change, because if you encourage the internal synergy of the tree with shatter combos, bonus frozen damage and freeze procs then it's pointless to encourage anti-synergy with bonus disease damage that breaks freezes after 1 tic.
Also, the DnD nerf is BS, it went from an AoE nuke to a tanking ability ... so gay. It should be like half the damage and twice the fear of what it was.
Just a random question as this is my first time here, what set of armor do you have on (or is that just a random assortment that happens to match) and what weapon are you currently using? Thanks
Did Deathcharger get a new icon?
Since the european beta client gets worse with each day I'll try to sum things up
First not Frost related:
- The nurf to vendetta was unneeded big times. I agree that this talent has become to important while leveling but if there is no compensation for it once you hit Northrend it starts to hurt.
- DnD was to strong, but mainly the fear component. Damage seemed to slow down once in Northrend.
Now on to Frost
Frost feels more like chaos or fire than like something cold and slow.
Nearly everything is proc reliant. Icy Touch needs a frozen target. Howling Blast needs one and now Frost Strike needs one too. I'm really no big fan of the new Cinderglacier rune. It's more unreliable while adding more spikiness (sorry for these crazy words). Sometimes my Frost Strike hits for 300 with my main hand than it crits for 1500. I mean, come on.. this is not me playing my class. This is just playing dice with nice graphics.
And the worse part about it is that the new build makes things worse.
Blood of the North seems to be totally random. Sometimes I can use it sometimes I can not. But all it does is adding one more frost rune by making the rotations more complicated (imagine tanking in this setup and with these rotations).
And its still Frost Strike vs. Icy Touch. Both abilites do and cost the same with a little difference.
Frost Strike got nurfed from my PoV. It can be partially resisted.. how lame is this.
The whole randomness continues in the tanking aspects of this tree.
Unbreakable Armor, Acclimation, Frozen Dreadplate these are all proc reliant.
Add to this the whole flawed frostrune specialization. A proc relying on a proc from a talent most the time.
I really really hope there is a new build soon as things feel really bad to me now.
What I would like to see:
-IT cd reduced to 5 seconds
- Skip the whole frozen stuff. We are not mages, we are melees. It hurts while tanking, its useless while raiding
- For gods sake remove or change Frost Strike. We have so much Runic Power with this specc. DC Spam is just boring and bears little synergies.
- Reduce the number of procs we need to work (Cinderglacier, Freeze Targets, 3 tanking talents)
-Saitoz-
Leiah, you mentioned that you "must be missing something" about the changes to Frost Strike.
Remember this: old Frost Strike essentially consumed an auto attack (since it is "on next melee"). The new Frost Strike does damage completely outside of auto attack.
Think Raptor Strike... basically you spend the cost of the skill on the tiny bonus damage, since it "uses up" a melee autoattack that would have cost nothing if you didn't hit Raptor Strike.
The change to a separate instant attack is a big buff all by itself, for this reason.
Agreed, this patch is a complete failure: it failed to address DK's problems, it failed to create DK synergy and it nerfed half a dozen DK abilities.
I disagree the whole Freeze + Bonus Damage aspect should be removed, it just need buffs. Because the Frost tree isn't just a tanking tree, it's a PvP tree, so I'd rather move the tanking abilities into low Blood tiers so you can either go Blood/Frost or Frost/Blood for tanking
As it stands, Blood feels sub-par for tanking, because Bone Armor is such an important damage mitigation talent. I come up with 2/35/30 for tanking + utility every time.
Hello,
whats that for a nice armor you wearing at lvl 77, greens?
Could you explain some of the stats?
Greets
You cannot compare mobs with 0 armor and how you're hitting against a geared player.
I don't see why you would only put 2 pts into blood when you are talking tanking + utility. Wouldn't you want the parry talent in blood? That's what, 10 talents into blood alone?
I definitely understand why you want bone armor and unbreakable armor. Too bad that unbreakable armor has to proc. really wish it would just be an always on effect.
Unbreakable armor:
Increases armor by 20%. When using a frost rune, has a 5/10/15% chance to increase total str by 15% for 5/10/15 seconds.
The 2 points in Blood are 2 points for Butchery, I'm using it rather than Chill of the Grave and Dirge for the non-specific Runic Power generation in fights, tho' I'm not certain it's better than either or 2 points in Frost Aura.
Hi, apparently everybody think that Unholy/Blood combo is the most suitable for PVP. But I was wondering why nobody try the Frost tree... Frost talent don't do enough dmg? I was thinking that Frost can give more snare for the pvp combined with Unholy or Blood, and I don't think that Frost is a tank tree at all, more a snare/dmg tree but I really don't know for the moment I can't play to the wotlk beta :(
So if someone can explain me why frost is not 'loved' and if there is a great difference in dmg versus the blood or unholy tree... Thanks u :D
I would like to point out that, first, avalanches are fast. So are blizzards.
Second, if you actually hit someone with a chunk of ice, they would take physical damage, not get frostbite.
If you actually hit someone with enough cold that they slow by fifty percent they will die from hypothermia seconds later.
Similarly brainfreeze. Unless the damage is like 3, (like the exact mechanism of ice cream) direct frostbite damage to the brain is instantly lethal. (Note that curse of agony assumes pain causes damage per se, not that pain is a result of damage.)
In reality, of the four elements, fire is the slowest. Firestorms are glacial in pace with respect to landslides, windstorms, blizzards, avalanches, falling icicles, etc...
Also, glaciers do physical damage, not frostbite damage. They require cold, they do not cause cold.
Similarly lava flows vs pyroclastic flows, which are just warm clouds of rock and wind.
--
All the traits we assign to the elements are essentially mythological. "Cold" being "slow" makes as much sense as elves being able to meld with shadows. Or existing in the first place, for that matter.
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