Here are my ideal fixes as of this writing to help balance this issue out, making the DK a much more fluid and viable PvP class.
13 comments:
Anonymous
said...
I love these ideas, especially the few about changing reactive spells like Bone Armor and Anti-Magic Shell to Runic Power cost. Although I may not be in the Beta myself, I've been reading up heavily on most matters, and one of the primary issue which I read frequently is that people do not want to spend certain runes incase a certain envent happens, so instead they save it. Your reactive ideas will help this, but may delay they uses if you start with 0 runic power, but this makes it balanced in my opinion.
I would also like to say that, I love your Blog and enjoy reading it. It has been one of my primary sources for information and wish for you to continue in the same manner!
No they are not going to remove it, he didn't put it in his rotation because Obliterate now costs 1unholy 1frost instead of 1b 1f so he didn't have an extra unholy rune. Which is the whole reason Jayde made the post in the first place, because there aren't enough unholy rune, especially if you spec deep unholy.
I would definetly love to see the Anti magic zone change as well as the chains of ice tweak. Not only for PVP reason, but PVE as well. Say your specced unholy to give spell casters your Ebon Plaguebringer, and for AMZ. If the raid boss is about to shoot off tons of aoe magic bolts or something, but you just dumped 2 unholy runes, your screwed. Making it runic power is what needs to happen.
Overall, great post of suggestions, only thing I don't like is the new talent you thought of. Unholy deathknights could use a deathrune conversion, but I don't want it to be on a 3 minute cooldown. Although, I think that Empowered Runeweapon should give deathrunes back baseline, and then give unholy another way of getting deathrunes.
EDIT: My mistake Degeneration was "removed" because it is now talented (I think) into a plague strike improvement. The blue post about it is a few posts below Jaydes.
Also, It looks like a few of your suggestions were implemented. I hope they listen to you Anti Magic Zone suggestion.
I have to agree with the majority of your points. In previous blogs and other forum posts you mentioned a similar problem with Frost.
It seems as though a lot of analysis needs to be done on the utility of RP versus Runes. It's understandable that DKs should be heavily dependent on Runes, but, currently it seems as though there's a slight lack of options for Rune Power use. Having more "utility" abilities which take a static RP cost would be nice.
Agreed, some of the Unholy abilities need to either be Blood abilities, Ruinic Power abilities or not "double dip" Runes.
Chains of Ice needs to cost 1 Frost Rune, because it's not good enough to cost 2 Runes in PvP.
Raise Dead needs to consume Ruinic Power, because in PvP Raise Dead is a reactionary ability, and you just don't have 2 Unholy Runes to spare in PvP.
Tangential: But is there a reason Death Pact consumes Ruinic Power? You're already losing the ghoul if you Death Pact, so why should you lose Ruinic Power too? I don't need Death Pact in PvE, because I could just detonate the ghoul and Death Strike, Rune Tap, Cannibalize or eat. But in PvP, consuming the ghoul for 0 Ruinic Power would be huge, because it would be a deterrent against the opponent attacking your Ghoul and "an oh shit button."
Anti Magic Shell and Anti Magic Zone should cost Blood Runes, as it stands Blood Runes serve no mitigation purposes, and Blood seems more Anti Magic than Unholy to me.
Tangential: Anti Magic Shell needs to be a cleanse instead of a bubble.
If they aren't going to de-nerf Death and Decay, then they need to reduce it's cost to 1 Unholy Rune.
Bone Armor should cost 10 Ruinic Power, and then it should consume 10 Ruinic Power whenever you're struck, but it's mitigation needs to be reduced.
Note: Ice Bound Fortitude should cost 1 Frost Rune, because it's too good to cost 20 Ruinic Power and you don't need two Ruinic Power based mitigation abilities.
That leaves Plague Strike, Obliterate, Death Strike, Lichborne and Death and Decay consuming Unholy Runes.
Note: I'm speculating Plague Strike and Degenerate were consolidated.
Tangential: I'd like to see Summon Gargoyle become the 51st talent and Unholy Blight become the Unholy tree's version of Howling Blast (a 30 talent point spell that costs 1 Unholy rune for a 5 second duration and a 10 second cooldown)
That seems "best" to me, Blood Runes get weighted down, but Pestilence and Blood Boil aren't for PvP, so it shouldn't be a serious problem.
I'm going to wait for the new trees, but I've mapped out where I think DKs should be and plan on writing a Bible post.
I agree with what you are suggesting, the dark grip using runic power is the one suggestion i find myself agreeing with the most from your previous post however.
I also suggest an Unholy base ability/talent, Exhume Corpse, costing 1 Unholy (or 1 Blood?) rune, feeding the deathknight runic power and dropping the corpse of a ghoul at your feet. Cooldown would be required and the amount of runic power would have to be appropriate.
This would allow for corpse exposion or raise dead to be used viability, and suits the deathknight while also tieing in with the wc3 upgrade for meat wagons.
Also, Jayde, do you know where this went? http://www.wowwiki.com/Unholy_Embrace
Unholy Embrace: Target is embraced by a silhouette of darkness for 6 seconds, corrupting any healing spells and effects cast upon or currently affecting the target to cause damage for 50% of their healing potential instead of restoring health. Any damage shields cast upon or currently affecting the target will also be instantly consumed, dealing 50% of their absorption potential in damage. Once afflicted with Unholy Embrace, the target cannot be afflicted with Unholy Embrace again for 1 minute.
Was it nuked? Rolled into Degeneration? Forgotten? Overpowered? Have they posted at all about it?
Not related to your post but, have the devs said anything about changing racials or doing something about their significance in arena? Racial imbalance remains the longest standing blatant imbalance in WoW =\
Hey jayde, I've been keeping up with your blog/videos/ect. and I'm really thrilled with the feedback you've been giving to them, and how they respond.
The new talents are up and I'm definetly excited for deathknight tanking. Frost still needs a little work though. Here is some of my feedback on the new frost talents released on the wow site.
Unbreakable Armor- I've been watching this talent make 180 degree turns since I saw the leaked talents from the alpha. I must say I do not like its current form. Something about not spending a Frost rune makes me feel like im missing out. Thats like only letting warriors max out rage at 85, or rogues only getting 85 energy, your taking away 1/6 of our power, and in frost its even more than that. Personally, in its current state I would only put 1 point in it, the chance to proc it when I run out of frost runes, which in my opinion is what it should be. 90 second cooldown is also way to long.
Frost Rune Mastery- Great change before you had a 50% chance to proc on freezing, which was also a chance to proc, this gives a solid % chance to reduce it, and this will average out it looks like to our frost runes have a 7.5 second cooldown.
Guile of Gorefiend- This talent removed 15% of the damage crit bonus, which was a good change in my opinion. They still kept the 6 seconds to Ice Bound, which was the main reason to pick this talent up anyway.
Endless Winter- This talent was awkward before, now I see what they are trying to do, but personally I think I will have Icy touch in my rotation anyway, atleast every 20 seconds, so I don't really need to put points into this.
Glacier Rot- Reducing this to 2/2 was perfect.
Imp Icy Touch- This seems like a nerf to me. The only reason to put points in this is for Icy Talons, which I don't know if thats worth 8 points.
Lichbourne- Putting this in unholy was definetly nice for tanking. It gives us the skill without having to spec that many points into unholy. I think PVP deathknights are going to be angry about it though.
Frost Strike- Not only was it buffed to deal more damage, but its based off of rune power, A+
Runic Power mastery- Wow, thats all I really need to say. This talent is a MUST for tanking, but it is an all around AWESOME skill for any spec you go. The 3% to icebound fortitude made me laugh though, it already gives 50%, so 3 isnt much, I'd rather see it last for 3 seconds longer.
Howling Blast- Now it costs 1 Unholy 1 Frost, same as obliterate. Also only does double damage instead of triple, but it was a bit.. overpowered before.
Hungering Cold- Disease issue fixed, frost fever is put on them so they don't need to be frozen for howling blast combo to work. Great fix.
Chill of the grave- It will be interesting to see whether or not frost DK's still have lots of runic power now that frost strike costs 50. I think Icy Touch will be used more in tanking rotation, mainly because thats the only skill besides obliterate that isn't on a cooldown.
Icy Reach- Last, BUT DEFINETLY not least, Icy Reach. This is a great bonus. It'll help howling blast a lot, as well as Chains of Ice. It also gives range to Icy Touch to shoot those far away people kiting us. Great talent.
Im also going to mention to other things, the 5% dodge was very nice to give us, as well as a reduced (not by much) blade barrier in the blood tree tier 1. However, I believe Blade barrier and Unbreakabe armor kind've contradict themselves and what the designers wanted. I hope you enjoyed my feedback as much as I enjoyed giving it, and can't wait to read you take on the recent changes.
Jade, would u please ask ghost for me wether DK's get the engeneer glasses for usual plate (level 62) in off and deff version or get different one? U could make a sidemark in your next entry. Thanx
Someone tell them that the new Scent of Blood is a no go. 25% chance on getting hit to generate max. 30 runic power in 30 sec for 3 talent points on a tier 5 Talent. Butchery gives ALWAY 20 runic power in 30 sec AND a boost on kill. 2 talent points tier 1.
Also Vampiric Blood and Unbreakable Armor might need an active Ability like Revenge, Overpower, ect. so it doesnt goes off uncontrolled.
13 comments:
I love these ideas, especially the few about changing reactive spells like Bone Armor and Anti-Magic Shell to Runic Power cost. Although I may not be in the Beta myself, I've been reading up heavily on most matters, and one of the primary issue which I read frequently is that people do not want to spend certain runes incase a certain envent happens, so instead they save it. Your reactive ideas will help this, but may delay they uses if you start with 0 runic power, but this makes it balanced in my opinion.
I would also like to say that, I love your Blog and enjoy reading it. It has been one of my primary sources for information and wish for you to continue in the same manner!
No they are not going to remove it, he didn't put it in his rotation because Obliterate now costs 1unholy 1frost instead of 1b 1f so he didn't have an extra unholy rune. Which is the whole reason Jayde made the post in the first place, because there aren't enough unholy rune, especially if you spec deep unholy.
I would definetly love to see the Anti magic zone change as well as the chains of ice tweak. Not only for PVP reason, but PVE as well. Say your specced unholy to give spell casters your Ebon Plaguebringer, and for AMZ. If the raid boss is about to shoot off tons of aoe magic bolts or something, but you just dumped 2 unholy runes, your screwed. Making it runic power is what needs to happen.
Overall, great post of suggestions, only thing I don't like is the new talent you thought of. Unholy deathknights could use a deathrune conversion, but I don't want it to be on a 3 minute cooldown. Although, I think that Empowered Runeweapon should give deathrunes back baseline, and then give unholy another way of getting deathrunes.
Great post, keep them coming!
EDIT: My mistake Degeneration was "removed" because it is now talented (I think) into a plague strike improvement. The blue post about it is a few posts below Jaydes.
Also, It looks like a few of your suggestions were implemented. I hope they listen to you Anti Magic Zone suggestion.
I have to agree with the majority of your points. In previous blogs and other forum posts you mentioned a similar problem with Frost.
It seems as though a lot of analysis needs to be done on the utility of RP versus Runes. It's understandable that DKs should be heavily dependent on Runes, but, currently it seems as though there's a slight lack of options for Rune Power use. Having more "utility" abilities which take a static RP cost would be nice.
Agreed, some of the Unholy abilities need to either be Blood abilities, Ruinic Power abilities or not "double dip" Runes.
Chains of Ice needs to cost 1 Frost Rune, because it's not good enough to cost 2 Runes in PvP.
Raise Dead needs to consume Ruinic Power, because in PvP Raise Dead is a reactionary ability, and you just don't have 2 Unholy Runes to spare in PvP.
Tangential: But is there a reason Death Pact consumes Ruinic Power? You're already losing the ghoul if you Death Pact, so why should you lose Ruinic Power too? I don't need Death Pact in PvE, because I could just detonate the ghoul and Death Strike, Rune Tap, Cannibalize or eat. But in PvP, consuming the ghoul for 0 Ruinic Power would be huge, because it would be a deterrent against the opponent attacking your Ghoul and "an oh shit button."
Anti Magic Shell and Anti Magic Zone should cost Blood Runes, as it stands Blood Runes serve no mitigation purposes, and Blood seems more Anti Magic than Unholy to me.
Tangential: Anti Magic Shell needs to be a cleanse instead of a bubble.
If they aren't going to de-nerf Death and Decay, then they need to reduce it's cost to 1 Unholy Rune.
Bone Armor should cost 10 Ruinic Power, and then it should consume 10 Ruinic Power whenever you're struck, but it's mitigation needs to be reduced.
Note: Ice Bound Fortitude should cost 1 Frost Rune, because it's too good to cost 20 Ruinic Power and you don't need two Ruinic Power based mitigation abilities.
That leaves Plague Strike, Obliterate, Death Strike, Lichborne and Death and Decay consuming Unholy Runes.
Note: I'm speculating Plague Strike and Degenerate were consolidated.
Tangential: I'd like to see Summon Gargoyle become the 51st talent and Unholy Blight become the Unholy tree's version of Howling Blast (a 30 talent point spell that costs 1 Unholy rune for a 5 second duration and a 10 second cooldown)
That seems "best" to me, Blood Runes get weighted down, but Pestilence and Blood Boil aren't for PvP, so it shouldn't be a serious problem.
I'm going to wait for the new trees, but I've mapped out where I think DKs should be and plan on writing a Bible post.
I agree with what you are suggesting, the dark grip using runic power is the one suggestion i find myself agreeing with the most from your previous post however.
I also suggest an Unholy base ability/talent, Exhume Corpse, costing 1 Unholy (or 1 Blood?) rune, feeding the deathknight runic power and dropping the corpse of a ghoul at your feet. Cooldown would be required and the amount of runic power would have to be appropriate.
This would allow for corpse exposion or raise dead to be used viability, and suits the deathknight while also tieing in with the wc3 upgrade for meat wagons.
Also, Jayde, do you know where this went? http://www.wowwiki.com/Unholy_Embrace
Unholy Embrace:
Target is embraced by a silhouette of darkness for 6 seconds, corrupting any healing spells and effects cast upon or currently affecting the target to cause damage for 50% of their healing potential instead of restoring health. Any damage shields cast upon or currently affecting the target will also be instantly consumed, dealing 50% of their absorption potential in damage. Once afflicted with Unholy Embrace, the target cannot be afflicted with Unholy Embrace again for 1 minute.
Was it nuked? Rolled into Degeneration? Forgotten? Overpowered? Have they posted at all about it?
Whispers of Death looks like hella fun.
It can easily be tweaked for power, as well.
Not related to your post but, have the devs said anything about changing racials or doing something about their significance in arena? Racial imbalance remains the longest standing blatant imbalance in WoW =\
These idea's seem really great (can't say for sure until I know the play style of the DK for myself although I'm Sure you're on the money).
Just wondering if anyone has asked blizzard on a 7th rune?
It seems like it could solve to some extent rune starvation without going back (to what I prefer) to full rune customisation.
The 7th rune would be chosen by the individual death knight and could be affixed in Ebon Hold.
It would mean that we get a little customisation:
2B/2f/3U
2B/3F/2U
3B/2F/2U
I know it would not totally fix it but rune starvation, but would mean you could tweak game play to your spec?!
Just an idea.
Hey jayde, I've been keeping up with your blog/videos/ect. and I'm really thrilled with the feedback you've been giving to them, and how they respond.
The new talents are up and I'm definetly excited for deathknight tanking. Frost still needs a little work though. Here is some of my feedback on the new frost talents released on the wow site.
Unbreakable Armor- I've been watching this talent make 180 degree turns since I saw the leaked talents from the alpha. I must say I do not like its current form. Something about not spending a Frost rune makes me feel like im missing out. Thats like only letting warriors max out rage at 85, or rogues only getting 85 energy, your taking away 1/6 of our power, and in frost its even more than that. Personally, in its current state I would only put 1 point in it, the chance to proc it when I run out of frost runes, which in my opinion is what it should be. 90 second cooldown is also way to long.
Frost Rune Mastery- Great change before you had a 50% chance to proc on freezing, which was also a chance to proc, this gives a solid % chance to reduce it, and this will average out it looks like to our frost runes have a 7.5 second cooldown.
Guile of Gorefiend- This talent removed 15% of the damage crit bonus, which was a good change in my opinion. They still kept the 6 seconds to Ice Bound, which was the main reason to pick this talent up anyway.
Endless Winter- This talent was awkward before, now I see what they are trying to do, but personally I think I will have Icy touch in my rotation anyway, atleast every 20 seconds, so I don't really need to put points into this.
Glacier Rot- Reducing this to 2/2 was perfect.
Imp Icy Touch- This seems like a nerf to me. The only reason to put points in this is for Icy Talons, which I don't know if thats worth 8 points.
Lichbourne- Putting this in unholy was definetly nice for tanking. It gives us the skill without having to spec that many points into unholy. I think PVP deathknights are going to be angry about it though.
Frost Strike- Not only was it buffed to deal more damage, but its based off of rune power, A+
Runic Power mastery- Wow, thats all I really need to say. This talent is a MUST for tanking, but it is an all around AWESOME skill for any spec you go. The 3% to icebound fortitude made me laugh though, it already gives 50%, so 3 isnt much, I'd rather see it last for 3 seconds longer.
Howling Blast- Now it costs 1 Unholy 1 Frost, same as obliterate. Also only does double damage instead of triple, but it was a bit.. overpowered before.
Hungering Cold- Disease issue fixed, frost fever is put on them so they don't need to be frozen for howling blast combo to work. Great fix.
Chill of the grave- It will be interesting to see whether or not frost DK's still have lots of runic power now that frost strike costs 50. I think Icy Touch will be used more in tanking rotation, mainly because thats the only skill besides obliterate that isn't on a cooldown.
Icy Reach- Last, BUT DEFINETLY not least, Icy Reach. This is a great bonus. It'll help howling blast a lot, as well as Chains of Ice. It also gives range to Icy Touch to shoot those far away people kiting us. Great talent.
Im also going to mention to other things, the 5% dodge was very nice to give us, as well as a reduced (not by much) blade barrier in the blood tree tier 1. However, I believe Blade barrier and Unbreakabe armor kind've contradict themselves and what the designers wanted. I hope you enjoyed my feedback as much as I enjoyed giving it, and can't wait to read you take on the recent changes.
Jade, would u please ask ghost for me wether DK's get the engeneer glasses for usual plate (level 62) in off and deff version or get different one? U could make a sidemark in your next entry. Thanx
Someone tell them that the new Scent of Blood is a no go.
25% chance on getting hit to generate max. 30 runic power in 30 sec for 3 talent points on a tier 5 Talent. Butchery gives ALWAY 20 runic power in 30 sec AND a boost on kill. 2 talent points tier 1.
Also Vampiric Blood and Unbreakable Armor might need an active Ability like Revenge, Overpower, ect. so it doesnt goes off uncontrolled.
Post a Comment