Tuesday, October 21, 2008

Warlock Destro Suggestion:

So I was reviewing the destro changes for locks lately after the ruin/devastation change, and did some thinking.

It seems that PVE locks are just fine with ruin being a 5 point talent, as it helps with their stat (crit) scaling for raids. It's a better 5 point investment as an 11-15 point talent sink than just 5% crit (which is the current 21 pointer). This leads me to believe that, assuming most people will end up going at least 51 demo or 51 affliction before going destro, that the current 21 pointer in destro could stand to be changed to help destro warlocks where they need it most right now: PvP viability.

So my idea is to basically get rid of the 5% crit talent, melt that lost DPS elsewhere into the tree, and replace it with something that would actually change a warlocks playstyle.

You wanted to give warlocks a different type of CC and make them less reliant on fear. That was the whole idea for introducing cripple, was it not? Well, why not give destro warlocks a chance at squeezing some sort of new CC in that would solve some of their issues (mobility and survivability), but NOT reintroduce cripple.

The first thing that came to mind was aflame wreath type ability, similar to the Shade of Aran in Karazhan, even if only a single target version with a moderate (30s or so) cooldown. Think chains of ice that locks you into place for a short duration via chains of fire, preventing movement for 2 seconds, but allows you to move after that, at your own risk: Any target who attempts to move out of the wreath explodes, dealing damage to all around them, and also burns away Y resources (lose a bit of rage/energy/RP/mana). I think that could be pretty cool.

To make up for the loss of 5% crit via devastation, you can simply melt that into the tree elsewhere.

The only other thing I was thinking of, was introducing a new "armor" for locks, to match more of a destro play-style.

Mages have Molten armor for fire specs, frost armor for frost, and mage armor for arcane (although the other armors can still be useful for arcane, too).

Warlocks basically have a PVE armor and a PvP armor... And to be honest: I really don't like demon armor at all unless I know I'll be catching a ton of heals. The 2% health regen and extra spell power is clearly superior for double DPS 2s, triple DPS 3s, and any small scale combat when you're not being followed/spam healed by a pocket healer, and/or being focused. When I do BGs, I almost always prefer fel armor.

I really think Demon armor could use a little boost, either with the physical damage duration reductions, or something along those lines. I at least think Demon armor needs to have it's flat armor increase # scale with another stat, such as spell power.


Anonymous said...

Sounds like your proposed changes would solve a lot of our problems. Maybe the Dev's will catch wind of your ideas.

Thanks for all your objective ideas. I think they really help the warlock community.

Mani said...

The falme wreath idea is nice, but I see it being OP in a pvp setting. Unlike pve, most people in pvp will not notice it and will get blown up by it.

re: demon armor, I actually love your idea of physical reduction. The game mechanic is there (so not much coding/testing need to be introduced) and it will solve a big problem with the warlock's biggest weaknest; melee.

For the 21 talent opinion that it is weak, I agree. My suggestion; I thought that something along the lines of a 1.5-2 min CD talent resetting all your CDs (with the exception of deathcoil and shadowfury) would actually be very nice. It would reset you teleport CD, it would reset your fel dom CD, it would reset your chaos bolt CD, it would reset your HoT CD, and it would not reset the other 51 talents since it's a 21 talent. The possibilities are endless. What do you think?

Anonymous said...

Awesome idea (chains of fire), I love how you tap into existing abilities in game and try to take them to their full potential, true imagination and vision.

Anonymous said...

You gotta be kidding... I am been playing a lvl 80 lock for a while in beta and I do not know where are you finding those "mobility" issues... you can still win vs anything you deal with, even rogues if u got good skill (and a bit of luck)

Jayde said...

Then maybe you should stop playing against bads.

Oscabo said...

Not to derail, but any idea why we haven't see any posts on the beta forums for Death Knights in the past week or so? Some big changes (imo) with UB not being a disease,etc.

Any thoughts on them? Thanks!

Babble said...

thanks for your blog Jayde, it was very helpful. I wish you could give a feedback on strangulate CD and AMS: what is your opinion on the CD of these two spells? Isn't the CD of strangulate making the spell too situational to be good?

I mean by that that people will instinctively hold on to a CD, just in case there is a better moment to use it.

Also, I would like you to know that I will be rerolling a DK called Jayde, in memory to everything you have done during this beta.

Jayde said...


I actually did post a bit about the UB change. I don't like it as a 51 pointer. I never have. It's simply tried to do too many things in one talent, that it ultimately got nerfed into "meh" status, very similar to explosive shot for hunters.

I honestly wish they'd just scrap it and give us something a lot more fun than a weak AOE that tickles mobs to death.

Oscabo said...

found your post, thanks. yeah, i agree about UB not being the 51 pointer it could be, but personally i don't have anything i can think of that would be "fun" per se. I've heard people mention summoning an abomination, which could be interesting for dps and any debuffs it could provide (bile spit or something) but then you feel like a mage with the elemental every 2 minutes

JonDavidRage said...

This is off topic but have you gotten a chance to read the thread about DG in the DK beta forums? Here's a link:


Just wondering what your thoughts were, should we be able to pull on the move or while falling, especially considering all the additions of knockbacks in wrath?

Anonymous said...

I like the idea since it's a kind of CC that you cannot use PvP trinket to get away from. I see a problem with it though; to keep the enemy from just running straight through it, it would have to deal a massive ammount of damage and in that case it would be unfair to the opponents if it is hard to spot before you run through it. You could also force the opponent to take the dealt damage by death gripping him out of the circle?


Anonymous said...

Oh, sorry. I missed the part where they get immobilized for 2 seconds, that would prevent them from running through it on accident.


Vailor/Brayzee said...

Hey i had a suggestion u might like... Hear me out its kinda long.

Shadowburn Trainable.. lock class in general for all specs need burst.. i know demo locks would love some more abilities.

Devastation moved down to shadowburn...conflag etc..

51 point talent... Nether Aura... Increases Spell haste + crit by 5%, reduces all damage done by 5%, and reduces the duration of Stun and Movement Impairing effects abd roots by 30%

This would be a group Aura.
With Soul Link Going back to 20% this would be nice defensively... and if Demon armor had its armor portion increased to about 4k we could use demon armor for our best defense or Fel armor for the increased damage.

This would also give Destro locks more utility in raids which they have very little of.

Or instead of moving all the 21,31,41, and 51 point talents... keep them in their spots and add the Flame Wreath idea which i think is great

feardotwin said...

The Flame Wreath idea sounds interesting but in battlegrounds this would be a bit OP. Having a lock Flame Wreath the flag in WSG or a cap point in AB would prevent anyone from ever capping anything.

I think we're headed in the right direction with Shadowfury FINALLY being an instant cast. I just wish Shadowflame would have a knockback as a way to get melee out of our faces.