Saturday, July 26, 2008

PvP Imbalance: Extreme understatement

You know, there are times when class balance is a little shaky. Sometimes warlocks are a little over the top, other times it's rogues. Perhaps a well-geared and well-played hunter pew-pewing from the hilltops of AV.

And then... Then there's this bullshit, that's currently running rampant on the beta servers.

Seriously.

What the hell is this?




To give you an idea of the total horse shit that is ret paladin at the moment, why don't you take a quick gander over some of these time-stamped combat logs of my recent encounters with them. Keep in mind, these are assholes using GOREHOWL off of prince from kara.







Yep. 9k Damage in one global cooldown. Pure fucking balance right there. Gotta love beta. =]

Edit: Since apparently some people are having a difficult time grasping the fact that paladins are currently broken, and their coefficients are scaling way beyond what was intended (as often happens in beta), you might want to look at this.

Yes, kiddos, paladins are broken right now. It really pains me that I have to point out that no class should really be able to pump out 9k damage at level 70 in one single second. Sigh.

39 comments:

Immolthar said...

Pff seems like GG atm..
Bizz done to well the Retardin dmg buff

Shadowmorn said...

What the HELL is Judgement of Justice doing holy damage for?!

Anonymous said...

So many things wrong in the screenshot -- Judgement of Justice doing holy damage, no apparent cooldown on Judgement (3 judgements in a gcd???). It's obviously not intended but heavily bugged.

Leiah said...

Of course. It's a beta. Shit isn't working correctly. We were having a hilarious time, though, even while we were slaughtered by paladins that can 1 shot people.

I've seen a judgement of command crit someone for 17k on beta. Obviously things aren't working right. :P

Andrew said...

Actually it's not bugged at all, JoJ was doing damage because Blizzard changed the Judgement system. There is no Judgement spell anymore, instead it is split into three, Judgement of Wisdom/Light/Justice and using one of them put that selected Judgement on the target as well as doing the damage from the seal.

JoC has had its tooltip changed so it does double damage on stun, this with Art of War and the huge chance to crit with talents, etc means Ret Paladins are currently getting out huge numbers.

The best question that had to be asked here however is how will this scale with endgame? Don't know whether Blizzard will nerf it, last time they did nerf something because Ret Paladins were doing lots of damage early they had to buff it back up a few patches later. So end game has to be considered here.

Oh yes, and our spells have better scaling now (esp with Sheath of Light), more of a fix rather then an actual buff to Paladins however.

Andrew said...

Oh yes, and there is a 8 second cooldown on Judgement at least, if there isn't then that is a bug, but I'm guessing there is, they are just spamming it every 8 seconds and making it look like there is no CD. There isn't however a GCD on Judgement and never has been.

Anonymous said...

The bug is, if i remember correctly, that when the pally refreshed Judgment of Justice, it does holy damage. It should only be doing damage at the initial application. So his melee hit, command proc, and crusader strike all refreshed the Judgment 3 times in like 1.5 secs.

Anonymous said...

Paladins are FINE, l2p.

:P

Anonymous said...

Hey at least you have a Troll Butcher :D

ColdFire said...

Yes clearly Pallies are fine because being able to one shot people is were they are meant to be dmg wise.

Anonymous said...

Don't forget your death kinght got zero resilience running in greens, I can pwn you almost as hard as that pally not in beta, but live version, Leiah.

ColdFire said...

Hey Leiah this is in responce to your post on the Beta boards about the DK talent changes. I agree 100% and i hope Ghost actually reads it and takes the advice.

Anonymous said...

Whoever said Jade was good at PvP? He's an idiot for running into a PvP priest and retadin.


He should go back to ganking greens like in his oh so impressive video.

Leiah said...

Thanks, Cold. I'm actuall 100% certain the feedback will be read, one way or another. ;)

Anonymous said...

Ok first off, is it ACTUALLY Gorehowl, or is it another weapon that's just using the skin of Gorehowl until it's own unique skin is created? Or are there any dungeon blues that borrow the skin? Did you manage to inspect the Paladin before he chopped your head off? :P

And the other point.... Paladin DPS in PvP or otherwise has always been consistent of random burst damage. Yes, random. You can't control when Seal of Command Procs. The only thing you can control is when you can pull off a judgement combo. It just seems that the paladin got some lucky crits and procs on you, that's all.

Have you ever tried playing a paladin before? It's a mind-blowing experience in how much Blizzard's RNG can be extremely cruel.... not that I'm asking you to show any sympathy. Just understand that a burst of 9k damage in a split second is on-par with a T6-geared Ret Paladin. The majority of the changes made for them in WotLK really only seem to increase their marginal raid utility.

Anonymous said...

... and unless you're hiding some information in the screenshotted combat logs, what happened in that video is not what happened to you. As stated before, it's a bunch of usual Combat/Justice procs that got you, not a bugged talent causing damage to triple. Go find some videos of Paladins on the live realms as-is, in T6+ gear in raids and watch how common the 5k/6k numbers fly. Remember that all the gear you've been getting in WotLK has been putting people up to aproxmimately T6 gear level.... and calm down if someone dares counters your argument. It's the internet -- if you're scared/angered by people countering your arguments and complaints, then maybe you shouldn't've made a public blog. :P

Ashanor said...

Seems pretty imbalanced to me. I have been hearing tons of complaints about the current state of Paladins in beta so let's hope Blizzard gets in fixed soon.

Gulgrim said...

As a paladin player, these bugs are embarrassing to see and I hope the players exploiting them realize they're purchasing the class a serious damage regression.

Bottom line is, this level of damage was not intended and the more players abuse it and run around bragging about it like they have been doing, the more it hurts the image of the spec and class represented.

I just hope that when the devs take care of these bugs, they don't overreact like they have in the past.

Honestly, if it shapes up like both of the previous beta tests did, with us getting nerfed into the ground because of these nitwits, I'm going to go ahead and do the DK thing. If only so I don't have to listen to these same schmucks whine on the forums for the next two years.

Leiah said...

Ah it's no big deal. They just probably moved a coefficient decimal point a little bit too far to the right somewhere. ;)

Gulgrim said...

What bugs me is less the code stuff and more stuff like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EjQor6oio8

It's not an awful video, but it's as though the person who made it and posted it has no real awareness that he's basically capitalizing on logic errors. That isn't even how the class is supposed to be.

And so others get that impression, too.

Leiah said...

Other people might, but the devs certainly aren't fooled by it. You're worrying too much.

Immolthar said...

I also got lvl 70 paladin and i know how it feels to kill 2 mobs with white dmg without a single SoC proc but doesnt mater how much you protect Paladins as long they can 1 shot ppl its not balance its a joke...
And if u think about it u will relize it to

Mazinkaiser said...

IT sounds to me like someone who has been owning face with warlocks for the past 15 months is getting his ass handed to him and cant cope with playing an undergeared no resilience toon.

This is beta, the devs OBVIOUSLY know what ret pallies are currently doing especially with your self proclaimed celebrity status being in beta to fill them in.

No reason to QQ.

And no offense, but you sound like a whiny little bitch in your post.

This is what I see.

Undergeared Death Knight with little to no resilience.

You attacked HIM fully knowing the consequences with the palli op issues.

You did roll beta on a pvp server.

Just the facts man.

Immolthar said...

Oh btw leiah have u tryed the (pimped) frost tree?

Anonymous said...

screenshots outlining a very BUGGED judgment of justice are useless. everytime JoJ is refreshed, it's doing damage.

Anonymous said...

and also, don't start your propaganda qq in these blogs especially with titles like "pvp imbalance". you said it yourself "it's a beta. shit isn't working correctly." so get over it, it's going to get fixed.

Naman said...

It does seem like something is amiss. I do not play a ret pally, but I roll with one often. I play an enhance shaman. Both of us are similar in gear, T6 level. In raids we are nearly identical DPS wise. When we farm mobs together they die in 3 seconds or less. In PvP though, there is no way that either of us is currently 1 shotting people. I'm not talking arenas, just out in the world. In fact just the other day we came up against a lock/druid. I took us at least 40+ seconds to dispatch the pair as I recall doing at least 4 stormstrikes.

Anyway, I'm sure it will get fixed, there was a time when windfury weapon had no internal cooldown and you could proc a string of lucky hits one after the other. I was able to do 7k damage in about 2 seconds at level 60 in HWL gear.

Leiah said...

I never said I was worried it wouldn't be. You should have seen affliction locks in the alpha. It was even more ridiculous.

I honestly think it's hilarious that so many people are leaving nerd-raging comments. Serious basement anger issues going on here.

Anonymous said...

To be fair, you were the one calling the paladins assholes in your post.

Considering paladins are the worst pvp class on live, it seems petty to cry about their 5mins of overpowerdness in beta before they get nerfed.

Moving along, what do u think of the frost changes?

Leiah said...

I guess you'd have to know me to know my sense of humor. :P

It was mostly a post made in jest of our amusing night watching paladins steamroll everything in their way. 17k crits aren't uncommon for them right now.

As for frost, I'm working on compiling some duel movie with a warlock buddy for feedback. Anti-magic shell and our ability to be kited worse than anyone else is horribly broken atm.

Gulgrim said...

I am a little worried the behavior will get reprisal, yeah ;) I just hope it gets fixed soon.

Anonymous said...

You people posting that this is the way paladins are meant to be are hilarious. Do you seriously think Blizz wants any class getting a 17k crit off?

Why do you think resilience was added in the first place? The highest crit I've ever seen on a 0 res target was about 8k; this is an obvious bug and it WILL be fixed.

Leiah said...

No shit, Sherlock.

Anonymous said...

look at me im a retarded player that can make useless videos of me randomly ganking and then QQ about ret pallys ganking me

wow bloggers are getting crappy and crappy in quality by the minute, guess theyll call anything blog worthy now days, even bad players that get beta keys

Anonymous said...

So whats new? Have been RNG by loladins for close to 10k aswell, obviously with alot better gear though

Anonymous said...

on live that is...

Anonymous said...

Actually the paladins abusing JoJ on beta are asholes and do the class a great disservice.

The bug is simple: joj does damage when judged and when refreshed. Since refresh is done by any auto or cs a sequence like:

judge command
crusader strike
auto

turns into:

judge command
judgement of justice damage
crusader strike
judgement of justice damage
auto
judgement of justice damage

And that's 1 gcd.

It's an obvious bug and people abusing it in pvp should imo be banned from beta. They are there to report bugs not abusing them and ruining the experience for others.

starrdumbb said...

I'm paladin and I'm going to be ret when wotlk comes out. I must admit that Blizzard went a little to much over the top but It's better then sucking to much like we have for so long. They'll probably fix it though. I don't want to be useless, our abilities and roles are getting better in raids and all around as of what I'm hearing from beta. (I pray that I will be in the beta when they announce who's in from the main site sign ups so I can make actual feed back on a blog or something)

Derekeen4 said...

Things like this make me glad the expansion is still in beta. It's obvious they have a few issues to work out, including things like this. Thankfully there's still quite a bit of time for them to realize this and fix crap like this.