Tuesday, September 9, 2008

Have chains of ice apply frost fever?

Discussion here:

1) Even with the damage out of whack as frost right now, I honestly prefer pvp as frost simply due to endless winter. Having chains of ice apply frost fever helps tremendously with pvp rotations as a whole. As either blood or unholy, I have to basically go through a whole extra rotation before I can even think about using a 1F1U rune ability. This also makes death strike annoying to use as any spec other than frost (even where it's less effective), simply because I have to do chains > plague > icy touch > blood runes > wait for 3rd frost rune to come back > death strike. It just doesn't flow very smoothly. This is, of course, assuming that all of my diseases stick on the target. This is also another reason why I wish death strike simply gave 100% healing done, and 50% extra per diseases. (rather than none + 100% per disease). Death strike is another of those abilities that I think would do well to have less disease dependencies.

2) This leads me to this point, because of that situation, having to use 3 frost runes per rotation in pvp really messes up my rotations in pvp as essentially any spec wanting to "finish" with a 1F1U strike. This is because chains of ice doesn't apply frost fever at the core level. If this one change was made, I'd be a lot more comfortable pvping on the dk, and it would feel infinitely "smoother" to play.

3) If Icy touch damage is going to stay low as it is, I see no reason to not have chains of ice be our "go to" frost fever application spell for rotations. This one change alone could be made without breaking the overall rotation philosophy. It would also lend itself well to tanks that need to snare a mob (forfeiting icy touch that rotation), without forcing them to screw up their rotations.

4) The chillblains > endless winter talent feels bloated as is already anyway. I feel like I have to basically spend 5 extra talent points in the frost tree if I'm going frost spec if I want to pvp without it being a headache. That's not fun, because I feel cheated out of cool other talents because I feel compelled to pick up something that mechanically feels mandatory. I think you could do well to make chillblains 2/2 for 15/30%, and roll endless winter in with it to make mind freeze cost 10/20 RP less. That would feel much better speccing into.

Just some thoughts. :)


Spooner said...

I would agree 100%

Right now though my Death Knight progression has hit a brick wall with the servers being so out of whack and the damage output being so unbelievably bad (in 74 greens and quest blues) that I have to rethink my entire spec and rotations.

I was deep blood not getting DRW and instead opting into unholy for more death coil and death strike love as well as more plague strike damage. Now that's pretty much out the window and I have no runic power dump outside of tanking other than rune strike.

There's something so pathetic about a level 74 ranked death coil only critting for 500ish. Now to find 5 points to spend OTHER than sudden doom.

Wínter said...

Hey Jayde, i've been following the beta forums and reading your blog for a awhile now. Since I don't have a beta pass I thought I would throw some ideas out here, i'm a little frightened by the scaling on a lot of the death knight abilities, and I think a lot of them are too conditional to be useful in chaotic situations like pvp (wich is very important to me) or if something goes wrong in a raid as well. So here goes..

Heart Strike: 2 blood runes, 100% weapon damage, heals for 50% damage done.
(helps with burst in pvp and global cooldowns)
Anti-Magic Zone: Max amount of magic absorbed equal to the death knights armor. (now scales)
Blood Presence and aura: Restores 1% max health each second. (currently only helps people doing damage and seems very weak)
Death Strike: 50% weapon damage, heals for 150% damage done.
(no longer dependant on diseases)
Icy Chains: I definately agree with adding frostfever with this, because in pvp we are supposed to use both but all the other team has to do is dispell the disease and our damage goes down the drain, or somehow remove CoI and we cant keep up at all for the next 10 seconds making us useless, no other melee class has this weakness.
Death Coil: No base damage, does damage equal to 35% attack power, crits for 200% damage(currently has aweful scaling)
Howling Blast: No base damage, does damage = to 25% attack power, crits like melee for 200%.
(same as deathcoil, and is supposed to be the main F/U for Frost)
Death and Decay: Remove Extra threat component, add some damage back. (this uses 3 runes, it should be worth it)
Mark of Blood: 20 second cooldown, instant, deals damageto the target equal to 1% of the Death Knights max health per second for 10 seconds, healing a party member with the lowest health for an equal amount (i just thought this seemed better)
Obliterate: Cleave ability that hits up to 5 targets in front or beside you for weapon damage. (no longer depends on diseases or removes them and can hit more people)
Frost Strike: Ok so i guese 3 100% hits in a row was too strong but maybe 75% weapon damage and 45 runic power would work.
Scourge Strike: 75% weapon damage as shadow damage, gives 20 rp.
(raises scaling damage while removing the dead bonus, unholy can always use more runic power as well)
Corpse Explosion: Explodes a corpse for damage equal to 25% attack power, has a 50% chance to not consume an unholy rune. (Seemed really weak and not useful before, with 3k ap it would now do 750 each explosion with no other talents and sometimes be cheaper, putting it closer to other aoe)
Shadow of Death: Should be able to attack as soon as you are vulnerable.
Gargoyle: Only consumes RP when in combat, maybe reduce cd to 1 min, change its damage to be about equal to what it is (unless too high or low) but to scale with the death knight so it's still useful in "season 8" or whatever.

Basically what i'm not liking is that Death Knights play the same roll as Warriors but intercept > death grip, hamstring is cheaper than CoI (although not as easy to get on at first), MS debuff > blood plague, and Warriors have more burst and scale way better than Death Knights.

Wínter said...

Oops! Lol on Death Strike I meant somewhere around 250% (1.25 weapon damage) or 300% (1.5) healed, not 150 (.75).

fred290881 said...

Problems :

1) Endless Winter is pretty much mandatory for every PvP spec, and therefore should be easily accessible to everyone (should be a tier1 or tier2 talent).

2) Glacier Rot is only usefull if you plan spec deep frost with Frost Strike. Therefore, this talent should be deep in the frost tree.

Solution :

Swap Glacier Rot and Endless Winter locations in the Frost Tree.

One stone, two birds ;-)

Just my 2 cents ;-)