Sunday, September 7, 2008

In case you were wondering what all those screen shots were for

They were for this. :)

Here is the feedback, as follows:

Wahhh I can't kill players in 2 shots anymore! :P

In all seriousness, here are some screenshots of my dps vs raid boss target dummy.

A few things to keep in mind:

1) I'm in mostly PvP gear.
2) My hit rating is absolutely horrible.
3) I'm not 100% PVE dps spec, but close.
4) Obliterate in DRM and MoM is great, and just what the doctor ordered.
5) Rune Strike damage adds up be higher than even oblit. This would be a nice knob to turn for tweaking damage. And personally, I think it's fun to use. And no, I don't macro it.
6) You can't see it in the screen shots, but I had blood worms specced, and they added up to be about only 75DPS with 3/3.

NOTE: Recount, the DPS mod I'm using to record all of these tests is slightly bugged on the beta right now. Where it has "glancing" listed, it's actually "crit" data. Please keep this in mind when you review these screen shots.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4-PpmLiFNSo/SMMcx-76r8I/AAAAAAAAAIc/DYVxg7jMYro/s1600-h/WoWScrnShot_090608_190916.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_4-PpmLiFNSo/SMMcsL1EcLI/AAAAAAAAAIU/q-mOkQE7MBc/s1600-h/WoWScrnShot_090608_191030.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_4-PpmLiFNSo/SMMckqr-iHI/AAAAAAAAAIM/s-u_vegSphU/s1600-h/WoWScrnShot_090608_191050.jpg

Build used: http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=jfmGqI00Vs0tkAo0ghzhZf

Edit: I'll add some more to this in a second.

I haven't done any instancing yet, so I can't say how good our threat is right now, so I can't/won't comment on D&D just yet.

Edit 2:

Retest with better PVE spec:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight=2305320530000305201150113513020505030000000000000000000200000000000000000000000000000

DPS results:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_4-PpmLiFNSo/SMNYtW2Z-aI/AAAAAAAAAJU/RJhAYOPqxlo/s1600-h/WoWScrnShot_090608_231828.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_4-PpmLiFNSo/SMNYp-hRKSI/AAAAAAAAAJM/5vs9xb5Nw_Q/s1600-h/WoWScrnShot_090608_231833.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_4-PpmLiFNSo/SMNYmqzwVXI/AAAAAAAAAJE/emG8Y5COalw/s1600-h/WoWScrnShot_090608_231839.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_4-PpmLiFNSo/SMNYfoAGrVI/AAAAAAAAAI8/ZixP0kY8VEA/s1600-h/WoWScrnShot_090608_231842.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_4-PpmLiFNSo/SMNYZE4wbiI/AAAAAAAAAI0/ey3zZEj_GM4/s1600-h/WoWScrnShot_090608_231844.jpg

Overall Preliminary Analysis:

I'm not liking this trend. Even while carrying a big, massive 2hander, my white dps is becoming to be a much bigger chunk of my overall DPS, which is only going to lead to DW being the dominant "option" (if you can really call it that) in the future.

Yes, this is partly because I take icy talons, but if you look at my other options, I don't really have a better choice.

Let me explain:

With the emphasis taken off our yellow damage so much, these early modifiers for yellow attacks are killing my yellow damage for blood spec.

This includes: Imp icy touch, black ice, glacier rot (which was a bad subspec talent before, but now is many times worse), and morbidity (only useful for tanking now).

I now have come to feel like I'm being punished by taking those talents, simply so I can get to good ones like annihilation and icy talons (which I actually don't like being forced into as blood, as it puts too much emphasis on white damage, which tips the scales in favor of Dual Wield).

I feel as if deathcoil and icy touch were over nerfed, a lot, and need to come back up in base damage.

I also feel like one of my old favorite talents, Sudden Doom, is now pretty terrible, simply because of the state of deathcoil's damage output right now.

Another thing I've noticed, is that most of my RP ends up getting used on rune strike. For 10 RP, I'm doing anywhere between 1900-5000 damage, and it's off the GCD. Death coil, on the other hand, is my only DPS RP Dump as blood outside of the lengthy cooldown DRW, and it does far, far less damage. Seriously. Even with sudden doom, it's putting out 2.9% of my over all damage. That's with 5/5 Black ice.

This means that I end up not even caring if I'm sitting at full RP and I have heart strikes to burn and shoot me over max RP, because spending a GCD isn't even worth it on death coil right now unless I absolutely have nothing else to spend that GCD on. That's not fun.

Please keep in mind that as much as I love my toon, I'm trying to keep this as objective as I possibly can. I'm just shooting straight with you about what I've noticed so far, and how it's making me feel.

Take it for what it's worth.


Edit3: Frost Damage

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_4-PpmLiFNSo/SMNm4xPsVzI/AAAAAAAAAJ0/tPqbHvPPcws/s1600-h/WoWScrnShot_090708_002633.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_4-PpmLiFNSo/SMNmuyDDqrI/AAAAAAAAAJs/nTu5_UWOGM0/s1600-h/WoWScrnShot_090708_002701.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_4-PpmLiFNSo/SMNmrzTHaaI/AAAAAAAAAJk/ZNVhFlxc5x0/s1600-h/WoWScrnShot_090708_002716.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_4-PpmLiFNSo/SMNoHh9122I/AAAAAAAAAJ8/TmyzWOv-bwY/s1600-h/WoWScrnShot_090708_003506.jpg
As you can see, howling blast is broken right now, and definitely not doing it's intended damage.

I used a very unrealistic spec to try and squeeze out as much possible damage as I could, and frost still falls embarrassingly short of being a good DPS option right now.

Here's what I used: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight=2305000500000000000000000003202505033502110201203101350230100000000000000000000000000

So yeah, as you can see, that's a very unrealistic spec. (No hungering cold, lichborne, merciless combat since it doesn't apply to these tests, etc)

As far as a rune enchant, I used Razorice, if that matters.

There's not really a whole lot to say about frost right now, other than it's really underwhelming. A lot of it has to do with how poor of a performer icy touch is right now. Even with maxed out talents supporting it, it's doing maybe 600 damage right now. That's downright awful. Then, you have to factor in that howling blast is broken.

However, it would take those two skills to be bumped up significantly to make up for the damage loss. I'm really starting to wonder if howling blast even needs a cooldown right now. It just feels clunky with this arbitrary 6 second cooldown.

Another thing I've noticed, is that since I'm less inclined to use icy touch as much anymore, my RP generation has taken a nose dive since last patch. I often find myself with JUST enough RP to get by, which might be OK for DPS in PVE, but as soon as you run into situations where you have to weave in AMS, IBF, and Hungering Cold, you'll have some big problems with RP generation.

As a matter of fact, my RP feels so starved as frost, that I feel as if it's my limiting factor for DPS right now. I'm constantly empty. Compare this to blood, where I'm frequently topped off in RP, although I think that has more to do with the fact that blood simply doesn't have any good RP dumps outside of rune strike and DRW. That's because death coil isn't worth the GCD.

There are a lot of factors that play into this.

1) Howling blast is my main damage dealer that's in chill of the grave, yet it's on a cooldown.
2) The addition of Rune Strike adds to my RP strain.
3) Same with Horn of winter, albeit less frequently.
4) Icy touch isn't worth the GCD except to apply frost fever, thus it being in chill of the grave isn't that big of a deal.
5) Frost strike eats up anything that's left.
6) Hungering cold still feels too expensive, given it's 60 RP cost, due to all of the above.
Conclusions thus far:

Things I like:

I'm actually liking the fact that my blood strikes and other such abilities that have disease requirements don't rely as much on diseases up to do the same damage. It's nice if diseases fall off, or get cleansed, or a debuff limit gets reached, or whatever. I like this change a lot.

However, the one ability that I think was overlooked in this department was Death Strike. I'd like to see death strike heal for 100% of the damage done without any diseases, and add 50% more per disease, to follow this same trend.

Other Suggestions:

Howling blast's cooldown needs to go.
Icy Touch needs it's base damage raised by 50% at least.
Deathcoil needs it's base damage raised significantly as well.
Obliterate needs to be added into chill of the grave, making it grant 20 RP per use.

Will add more later after more tests.

4 comments:

Zarkharaan said...

Largely agreed.
For some of my own observations...

I'm Blood at the moment, for DPS.
Death Coil is rarely worth wasting a GCD. I generally find myself locked in my rune rotation with very few nonGCD spots to cast it in and the damage doesn't really justify using the GCD at all.
Dancing Rune Weapon is pretty amazing. It can do 400-600 DPS for me, definitely worth using 130 RP and a cooldown for. (RP Mastery)
On the whole, I'm doing roughly 900 DPS in most situations, pushing it to 1.4k through a boss fight where I use DRW.
That's with green/blue T5 or so gear, the Deraged Waraxe. 53/18/0 spec.

Bagarn71 said...

Have you compared to other classes at same level/gear ? How bad is it compared to others ?

I have asked this before here but didnt get any answer. I asked before too if nerfs could be inbound , and now they are here.

You have 900DPS in frost you say , and its awful , but isn't frost supposed to be the tankning tree?

IF that's the case , how is DPS compared to Prot Warrior , tank-geared Druid or Prot Pally?

Dreadhawk said...

There is no tanking or DPS tree. All trees are meant to be able to do both with varying spec's within the trees.

ColdFire said...

I hope you have snet all the numbers and stuff to you "contacts" to show them that Ks are not doing the DPS they need to be at 80 and in current state people are going to stop inviting them to 10s and 25s. I really hope they push a new build soon to address the numbers, since as has been said 2k dps at 80 is horrible.